I have two comments. First, I wanted to talk about Zedvia. Your analogy with the long HDMI cable is flawed for one major reason. There are only two ways to get the data off of the DVD. They either need to crack the encryption and access the MPEG-2 data directly, or they can capture the analog output of the DVD player. Cracking the encryption is illegal, so we know they aren’t doing that if they have any hope of staying legal. That means they must be capturing the analog outputs. The problem with this is that you can’t stream analog video over the internet. They have to be re-encoding it (probably to MPEG-4 for efficiency reasons). I think that their have already been legal decisions that say the capture and re-encoding counts as a copy.

Second, I wanted to talk about dynamic range. I agree that in the car, on the bus, on a plane, and places with lots of background noise compressing the audio is a good thing. The problem is that when the CD or audio file you download already has the compression applied, you can never get it back. It is trivial to put the dynamic range compression into the head unit in the car or the MP3 player itself. The radio station can easily compress the audio before sending it out. There’s no reason to add the compression onto the source material. I’m amazed when I listen to a CD from the early to mid 1990’s and then listen to something recent back to back. It’s crazy how much of the dynamic range is gone now.

Can you guys post the list of apps you discussed?

Haven’t listened to the episode yet, but what about a listeners’s favorite apps page?

Mine are (but not necessarily in this order):

-Audible
-Kindle
-Insight (Basecamp interface)
-MacHash (Mac news)
-USA TODAY
-NPR News
-Mint (Personal finance)
-Amazon
-Living Social
-Mail Chimp (Mailing list management)
-Facebook
-Words With Friends (Game)
-Infinity Blade (game)
-Flickr
-Open Table (Restaurant reviews & reservations)
-CraigsPro (Craigs List interface)
-iPod (built-in, but I use it so much for podcasts I thought it worth mentioning)

If you are an android user, here’s what I like:

Settings Profiles (I find it easier to use than Tasker)
Launcher Pro
Folder Organizer
Weather Bug
Yahoo Live Scores
Google Reader
Twitter
DoggCatcher (for podcasts)
Rdio

I volunteer to come up with names.

Ha! This is why I jibe with Liz and Tom:

1) Liz mentioned those people on the bus or train who are listening on ear-buds with the volume cranked so loud that you can easily hear their crappy music over the noise of the vehicle! That bugs me SO much. For one thing, it’s just a crime to your own music to be listening to it on earbuds! For a second thing, just think of the damage you are doing to your hearing! And for a third thing, no one else wants to hear your crappy music! Especially coming out the BACK of your crappy earbuds!

And the solution is so easy! Just get some decent in-ear monitor earphones! They don’t even have to be all that expensive. Klipsch makes some great in-ear monitors that sell for about $70 or so. I mean seriously, your music’s quality, the public’s annoyance, and most of all, your HEARING aren’t worth $70?! C’mon!

I swear, if I were a multi-millionaire, I’d just walk around with dozens of Shure SE215 earphones in a backpack and hand them out to every person I saw wearing earbuds! I’d say, “Here! Take these! Your music will sound about a bazillion times better, you won’t have to play them so loud that they make you deaf, and you can stop bugging ME because the sound won’t be leaking out the back of these and pissing everybody else off!”

In-ears, people, in-ears…

2) Tom hates Facebook. I hate Facebook too. When you have to spend more time managing your account in order to protect your own information – as well as stem the tide of USELESS information coming from other people – than the time you actually spend using the website, it’s officially more of a hassle than it’s worth in my book. So suck it, Mark Zuckerberg! And dude? You’re rich enough now. Just share a little bit of your billions with the other people who came up with the idea, mmmkay?

@arbeck

Maybe look at it this way…

Conventional:
1) Pop a legally owned DVD in a computer CD-ROM drive, use licensed hardware/software to decrypt the data, send the digital video signal in real time to a single computer monitor or digital television

Zediva:
2) Pop a legally owned DVD in a computer CD-ROM drive, use licensed hardware/software to decrypt the data, send the digital video signal in real time over the internet to a single computer and thence to a single computer monitor (or digital TV)

@Downtowner

They could make that argument if they were sending the actual digital signal in real time over the internet. But they’re not. If they were sending the raw uncompressed digital information that is passed from the player to the monitor from computer software, there is probably no way they could get sued. We know that they aren’t doing that though. That signal would require way too much bandwidth to pass. They have to be capturing the signal and encoding it with some sort of codec. Personally I don’t believe this should count as a copy. But legally, transient copies have counted in the past. And there’s simply no way to argue that they aren’t making a transient copy.

I have to agree with arbeck.

There is just no way that Zediva is putting DVDs into actual DVD players and then simply using the internet as the “cable” to connect that player to a screen. That’s what they’re TRYING to say they are doing, but that just wouldn’t work; the bitrate would be FAR too high for that to actually work.

Instead, they simply MUST be re-encoding a decrypted DVD file – perhaps into H.264 or a SilverLight format or something along those lines. That would go beyond what the courts have ruled is “fair use” of decryption and backup software. Individual users are allowed to decrypt and backup their own, individual libraries of content. But you are NOT allowed to then go and share those backups for a fee!

Once the technical details of how Zediva works come out, I really don’t think they’re going to have a leg to stand on. If they really were just putting DVDs into players and using the internet like an incredibly long cable, then ok, they might be able to get away with that. But we all know that they absolutely must be re-encoding before sending out the stream – and that clearly counts as a copy, which they are then sharing for a fee. Expect them to get sued into oblivion!

The data on a DVD is MPEG encoded at about 9.8 Mbps. Of course it is CSS encrypted, but once de-encrypted, MPEG is the video/audio data format that is on the disc (in VOB containers of course).

After CSS de-cryption, the next step is MPEG decoding. Nothing says that MPEG decoding has to be done at the same location as the de-cryption. In fact, why not leave it compressed before sending it over the internet to the remote computer?

9.8 Mbps is easily within the scope of today’s broadband connections. A remote computer could receive the realtime MPEG data stream and decode it locally before sending it to the display.

@Downtowner

While from a technical perspective, 9.8 Mbps seems like it should be entirely possible, I have to say that I still just don’t see it actually happening. 9.8 Mbps is basically 3x higher bitrate than Netflix’ HIGHEST quality streams – even in HD! And most people with Netflix streaming aren’t even getting the highest “four bars” bitrate.

I’m not saying an mpeg2 + DD (AC3) stream isn’t technically possible, but I DO still think it’s far too high a bitrate to honestly be what Zediva is doing. 9 Mbps is what Vudu uses for HDX for Pete’s sake! Most people can’t watch HDX in “real time” and instead, must allow the HDX movie to download or at least buffer for an hour or two in order to get an uninterrupted viewing. And with those sorts of bitrates and time-to-download considerations, people expect 1080p resolution, not vanilla DVD quality.

So I agree that it is possible, but I still really do not think that is what is actually going on with Zediva. I’m still extremely confident that when the technical details come out, it will be revealed that Zediva is re-encoding the DVD files. Now, they might be doing it in real-time and never actually have a complete “copy” of the whole movie. Maybe that is how they will claim that they aren’t making copies and then sharing them for a price. But I still don’t see how they’re going to get away with it. They are NOT merely putting a DVD into a player and then using the internet as a “cable”. As soon as you start re-encoding stuff before you stream it? It’s pretty hard to claim that you aren’t making a copy – even if it’s only ever an incomplete one.

OK, next item on the agenda. I make a motion that there should be no more Apple talk on AVRant unless it has to do with something providing content or control to a high fidelity audio system, an HDTV, or a high-def projector.

OK, Downtowner, but then you have to support my motion to have people who get to do whatever they want discuss only the things that interest me. In fact, I make a motion that the whole world organize itself for my benefit. Who’s with me!?

Awesomely spontaneous grumpy sarcasm!

Oh wait…you must have an app for that.

App Input: Dude self-importantly thinks AVRant podcast should focus primarily on AV topics.

App Output: OK, (username), but then you have to support my motion to have people who get to do whatever they want discuss only the things that interest me. In fact, I make a motion that the whole world organize itself for my benefit. Who’s with me!?

If only Android offered an App to install a sense of humor…

Seriously, Downtowner, dude, lighten up! Sometimes, with all the podcasts that I listen to, I get kinda tired of lots of Apple talk and Smart Phone talk in general too. Then I do something magical…something…amazing. It’s almost too sacred to speak of, but I shall share this mystical knowledge with only you, Downtowner, only you…

Is everyone else looking away?

Good.

I use the Fast Forward button on whatever player I am using to play back the podcast.

shhhhhh!!!

Not so loud!

Other people might catch on to this secret!

Anybody else who read this message in error, please do not abuse the power of this information. It is meant for Downtowner only.

Remember the Fast Forward button, Downtowner…remember…

***blows puff of powder from finger tips a la Keyser Soze***

Channeling Rob, I stopped reading your response at “Awesome.” And I have to say it was great up to then. Then I hit the blogcomment equivalent of FF.

PS: If you want a long, polite discussion of what I think is wrong with your proposal, I’d be glad to indulge you. But it will be boring.

@Rob
“Seriously…lighten up!”

Well-crafted oxymoron! 🙂

RIght now I’m going to be serious…later on I’ll lighten up.

I guess I’m one of those weird, humorless people who thinks that the Comments section is for leaving comments about the show (the temerity!).

You prefer to use Fast Forward and remain otherwise passive; I prefer to use Fast Forward and then follow up with feedback. Because I believe that Fast Forward button is a gateway drug that leads to using the Stop button, which eventually leads to not downloading the podcast any more.

I think AVRant is sacrificing its unique position in the podcast world by straying away from cool audio/video topics into these lengthy discussions about iPads and iPhones and apps. I think that the hosts deserve to get honest feedback like that; you guys don’t need to “protect” them by squashing any criticism. They’re big boys and girls…they can take it.

@jfalk
I like the cut of your jib – you’ve got spunk, kid! You’ll go places someday…